Al Azhar is one of the oldest and most respected institutions for Islamic thought in the world, dating back over 1000 years. You can learn more about this institution here.
FASOTE: We're here with Dr. Salah Nefeily, professor of English Literature at Al Azhar University in Cairo. What exactly do you teach here Professor?
P: I did my PhD in English Literature from the USA. I teach things like Shakespeare, Dickens, Chaucer and such.
FASOTE: OK - great. Let's begin, shall we? The first question I'd like to ask is, what are your thoughts on the U.S. and its relation to the rest of the world today?
P: To be honest with you, I had been in the States for about 7 years, and I love the American people. They're very nice people, very helpful, very friendly, very cordial. I had some friends for about 4 or 5 years in the States, and we actually lived together for some time in North Dakota. It was a small town, and everyone treated each other like family. It was great.
FASoTE: And, as an Egyptian, they were nice to you?
P: Well, the first time they meet you they feel as though you are kind of a stranger, but after they got to know me they were very nice and very friendly. In fact, I owe a lot to all the people and professors I had there - I wish I was still in contact with them.
FASOTE: So, when I ask you your thoughts on the U.S., you will say that the people treated you very well. Anything else?
P: Well, if you want to talk about the political aspects of it nowadays, I'll tell you honestly that they don't seem to have a very friendly attitude to the smaller countries of the world. Because, from our perspective, we are taught to respect out elders, and the elders should love the young ones. This probably applies to governments and countries as well. The U.S. is a democratic government - this is obvious on a social level. But once you come to the political level, or aspects, of the last few years, I think there has been - well, I don't want to say oppression, but maybe mistreatment of some countries. I wish that the smaller countries could be dealt with equally and on equal grounds. This would be useful, because we consider the U.S. as the superpower - you have to accept that. But, there are some things that we Muslims cannot accept - I mean, we are human beings as much as Americans are human beings. If we could deal with the Americans on such equal grounds I think we would be very happy. Honestly, I have nothing against Americans themselves.
FASOTE: Do you believe that the key to dealing with all peoples on a human level is through the United Nations?
P: No, no. I don't think so.
FASOTE: So, you think it is up to the American government to deal with everyone evenhandedly?
P: Yes, as well as the American media - they have a very influential position in all of this. They need to enlighten Americans - let them know that Muslims are not terrorists, but that Islam is a religion of love. Islam means peace, you know.
FASOTE: Well, that leads us into our next question. What are your feelings on the state of the Islamic world today?
P: Actually, I see in the States a lot of the principles that are in our religion. You know, we remember the famous Egyptian sheikh or priest - I think his name was Mohammed Abda - who said "I went to the West. I think in the West, people do not follow Islam but live like Muslims. And here, people follow Islam but are not Muslims." Because, you know, honesty is in the United States, hard work is in the States, perseverance, help. Look at the way they take care of their cats and dogs. This is very Islamic. You understand that we have a story where a man was sent to hell because he locked a cat in the house without giving it food or water, while another man was sent to heaven because he took pity on thirsty dogs and gave them water. We are supposed to take care of animals, not to mention human beings. There are so many traditions about orphans - we are supposed to take care of them and support them in every way. These traditions also seem to be in the U.S. So many Americans are better Muslims than we are.
FASOTE: Very interesting. But, independent of the U.S., we're trying to find out what you believe is the state of the Muslim World. I mean, in the West we hear a lot about the 'angry Muslim street'. But my experience here in Cairo has been that people seem happy, and they are very nice. Do you think the Islamic world is going in a positive or negative way right now?
P: Islam is a very logical religion. So many Americans believe in Islam, and Islam is spreading in the U.S. One of the famous magazines - I think it was time - mentioned that Islam was the fastest growing religion in America. We do not use bombs, w do not use swords, we do not use guns to spread our religion. Our religion spreads because people want Islam. People look for what is good for them. They look and they compare, and they find that Islam is the most acceptable. However, we should not say that Islam rejects other religions. Islam, in fact, accepts other religions. There is a verse in the Koran that says something like "You are not a Muslim unless you accept Jesus and Judaism and Christianity." There is no compulsion in Islam. You notice that people and governments constantly attack Islam, but more people convert to it than any other religion. This is a very complicated issue, because the more Islam is attacked, the more people read our books to try to understand, and the more they realize that it is not a bad religion.
FASOTE: Great point - let's move on. In your perspective, what does the word 'freedom' mean?
P: To me, freedom is the ability to act according to my own desire, my own word. I cannot trespass even over my son's freedom or word. 'I have my own word - I am free to act how I like. I cannot impose my wish on others or my desires on others, even if he is my son, because I need to guide him, let him kow what is right and what is wrong, but it is up to him to choose. He has that freedom. But also, I cannot trespass on others possessions and say that is freedom, in the same way that I cannot accept others to trespass over my possessions and my world and let them go. No. Life needs to be based on mutual respect. We have to respect others, on both a political and social level. We have to respect the young. If a superpower suppresses a smaller country, this situation is very much similar to a grown up man who hits a child. I don't think that anyone in the States would accept this. Beating a child is not right. In the same way, we cannot accept a superpower that suppresses smaller countries, because they have no right. Again, we come back to the idea of rights. If someone trespasses over me, I have the right to defend myself. But, if no one trespasses over me, I cannot defend on my suspicions and say - yeah, this man is gonna be me some day so I'm going to kill him now. this isn't right, it isn't fair. We have to respect all other nations and peoples. If we are strong it doesn't give us the right to step over others.
FASOTE: Do you believe the differences between the West and the Islamic world are irreconcilable?
P: To be honest with you, I don't see any essential difference between the Islamic way of life and the Western way of life. We are almost living the same way. A tru eMuslim lives the same way as a Judeo-Christian westerner. Because, honesty is good in both, stealing is bad in both. You know - I don't see any essential difference between them.
FASOTE: But, some Christians will never accept Islam as a valid religion because Muslims do not believe in the concept of the Trinity.
P: ACtually, it doesn't really matter if they accept our religion or if we accept theirs. There is no contradiction, because I am free to believe whatever I want, and a Christian can believe whatever he wants. But, he doesn't have the right to act against me. So, he is completely free to believe whatever he wants - a thousand gods is fine with me - no problem. But my freedom give me the right to believe whatever I want. The only thing that is important is that he doesn't act in an inappropriate way towarsd me. So, I don' think the differences are irreconcilable, beacuse we can all believe whatever we want, but we can overcome this in a poltical sphere beause our differneces are realy only in the details. On the realities of life, the religions all agree, and that should be enough to attain understanding.
FASOTE: Do you think the war on terrorism will help or hurt humanity?
P: So far, this one is not so clear in the minds of many. No human being likes terrorism. If a war on terrorism is going to be fought, let the Muslims be the first to wage it, because you know that in our religion , if someone terrorizes innocents he is dealt with very harshly - sentenced to death, actually. Islam is very strict about that. Islam is not a religion of terrorism, it is a religion of peace. You can see so many Muslims who live fully in peace. I use to pray in the States - and people did not mind. They enjoyed my company. But, once you take my things, I say no, this is not fair. Then I have the right to defend myself.
FASOTE: So, are you saying that the war on terrorism is good if it helps rid us all of the terrorism that nobody wants?
P: Yes - nobody wants terrorism. But let me say - let us know what terrorism is, and then we will fight it. I am sure that if we came to the real definition of terrorism, that all Muslim countries will be there to help, because no Muslim accepts it.
FASOTE: But, before Muslims can help, they must know what it is?
P: Yes. Because, if I take your tape recorder right now, and you fight back because it is yours - this is not terrorism. So let's define it and we'll go from there.
FASOTE: OK, here's one last question. Who is your hero?
P: We, all Muslims, consider the Prophet Mohammed to be the greatest human being. We love him because he loved all his fellow brothers. He loved his fellow messengers too - Jesus Christ, Moses, Abraham. We are not Muslims unless we love them as well - we also love all Christians and Jews. But, the Prophet Mohammed must be my hero, as he was the example for all.
FASOTE: OK - thank you so much for you time.